Crash TSDI sur le bancassureur néerlandais SNS Reaal !

Southey Capital fait même de publicité sur google pour racheter des obligations SNS :

SNS Bank + SNS REAAL + De VolksBank

C’est encore reparti pour 3 mois et en cas de succès, les avocats du ministère des finances vont aller à la cour suprême, bref c’est parti pour durer encore quelques années au moins.

Vous pouvez suivre cette discussion en utilisant le traducteur automatique de Google :

Obbligazioni perpetue e subordinate - SNS Reeal in diretta: storia di un esproprio - Notizie, informazioni e commenti | Page 754 | Forum di Investireoggi

The expropriated process of SNS lenders stumbles to the end:

within three months or less, the Chamber of Enterprises believes it can finally give SNS Reaal’s expropriated lenders clarity on the amount of compensation they will receive. With that promise from President Gijs Makkink, a session of almost seven hours ended on Thursday.

The state and many of the victims have for years been engaged in a fierce legal battle over the amount of money to which the former shareholders of the bank-insurer and other creditors are entitled. It’s been seven years since the state nationalized the ailing financial institution and left creditors empty-handed.

Unnecessary delays

For a moment on Thursday it seemed that the legal battle would last months again.
Several lawyers for deceived investors accused the finance minister of unnecessarily delaying the judicial process. Shortly before the hearing, his lawyers put forward new arguments as to why subordinate bondholders are not entitled to compensation.


Too late, was the unanimous conclusion of the lawyers of the various creditors. "The minister is now pulling another rabbit out of his hat in a last ditch effort to take the compensation set by the experts off the table," said Gerjanne t.e Winkel, a lawyer for a group of victims. "It is not in harmony with the minister’s public office to squeeze every corner to avoid payment."

The minister’s attorneys argued Thursday that there was no money left for subordinate bondholders, as competing creditors would first have to receive lost interest in the event of bankruptcy. When they were paid, there was nothing left for the bondholders.

The judge will decide only after the hearing whether this point can still be raised and whether the victims’ lawyers will then have time to respond in writing. But that doesn’t seem to lead to a delay of months.

Expert report
During the Amsterdam court session for corporate disputes, misled investors and the state discussed a report Thursday that demonstrates how much SNS Reaal stocks would be valued in the theoretical situation that the bank-insurer had gone bankrupt.
In February 2016, the Enterprise Chamber appointed three experts, including heavyweight Louis Deterink, to determine this amount. In April 2018, they concluded that SNS would have generated € 814 million if the bank-insurer went bankrupt and the directors could just do their job. This would mean that expropriated bondholders could recover up to 75% of the value of their bonds.

As the state arrived at a fraction of this amount, the Chamber of Enterprises gave the tasks to the experts at the end of 2018. They had to better demonstrate how they had reached over € 800 million. A year later there was the newly motivated relationship. Experts also come up with a slightly higher amount in this.

On Thursday, state lawyers immediately deposited that amount in the trash. They believe that experts have worked with overly optimistic scenarios. As a result, they were counting on too high income from the liquidation of the mortgage portfolio and the troubled real estate leg.

If the Chamber of the Enterprise makes a decision within three months, the legal battle will not end immediately. If the court agrees with the experts’ arguments, it is quite conceivable that the state will appeal to the Supreme Court. This procedure can take years.

ça sert à quelque chose de maintenir l’abonnement VEB?

Il n’y a pas vraiment du nouveau dans l’affaire SNS, je vous conseille de suivre cette conversation sur un forum Italien ( Google Translate est votre ami ).

Obbligazioni perpetue e subordinate - SNS Reeal in diretta: storia di un esproprio - Notizie, informazioni e commenti | Page 754 | Forum di Investireoggi

Avez-vous finalement attaqué HSBC en justice ?

Chaque gouvernement Néerlandais fait le maximum pour retarder la sentence et laisse la patate chaude au gouvernement suivant, je ne sais pas combien de mois/années ça va encore durer.

News en provenance du forum Italien cité plus haut par Oblible :

Forum italien SNS REAAL a écrit :

La décision de la Chambre d’Entreprise concernant la valeur de vos obligations expropriées est désormais prévue pour le 21 janvier 2021.

Le retard est frustrant mais nous avons maintenant la «certitude» que ce sera une décision finale de la Chambre des entreprises. Cependant, la possibilité de déposer une requête en cassation reste ouverte à toutes les parties.

https://www.investireoggi.it/forums/thr … 1046175778

A priori, on commence à en voir le bout. Croisons les doigts.

J’avoue, que j’ai du mal à y croire, depuis le temps…
mais je parie qu’on ira en cassation.

Le cours est affiché à 32,95 chez Saxo en ce moment. Une décision a été officialisée ? Ou simple transaction fictive ?

Décision reportée au 11/02 apparemment d’après le forum italien.

C’est plutôt wait forever

Je pense qu’il y a une bonne nouvelle ( à confirmer ).

Obbligazioni perpetue e subordinate - SNS Reeal in diretta: storia di un esproprio - Notizie, informazioni e commenti | Page 767 | Forum di Investireoggi

Staat moet SNS-beleggers 804 miljoen betalen om nationalisatie in 2013 | NOS

Amsterdam, 11 February 2021

Compensation for the expropriated securities and other assets of SNS Reaal and SNS Bank has been set at a total of € 804,810,000. This was decided today by the Chamber of Enterprises of the Amsterdam Court of Appeal.
On February 1, 2013, SNS Reaal and SNS Bank were nationalized after encountering problems due to developments at the Property Finance branch.
Compensation

The finance minister had offered zero compensation. During the proceedings, the Minister argued that the compensation cannot exceed € 300 million. The Chamber of Enterprises has now set the compensation for the expropriated securities and other assets of SNS Bank and SNS Reaal as of February 1, 2013 at a total of € 804,810,000. The compensation determined by the Chamber of Companies will be increased by legal interest from 1 February 2013 until the date of payment.

The Chamber of Enterprises has decided that subordinated bond holders receive a large part of their credit. The shares of SNS Reaal do not represent any value and the expropriated shareholders therefore receive no compensation. The value of the expropriated securities and assets of SNS Bank and SNS Reaal at 1 February 2013 was determined as follows:
Securities issued by or with the collaboration of SNS Reaal or SNS Bank respectively, expropriated in the name of the State:

ordinary shares of SNS Reaal; € 0
B SNS Reaal shares; € 0
Stichting Beheer SNS Reaal Core Tier 1 securities; € 0
6.258% SNS Reaal subordinated bonds; € 168,900,000
8.45% SNS Reaal subordinated bonds; € 50,100,000
11.25% subordinated bonds of SNS Bank; € 244.900.000
5.75% subordinated bonds of SNS Bank; € 8,500,000
6.25% subordinated bonds of SNS Bank; € 204,400,000 6.625
% subordinated bonds of SNS Bank; € 29,000,000
SNS 3 participation certificates; € 51,000,000
€ 5 million 4%
SNS Bank floating rate subordinated bonds; € 3,900,000

Assets of SNS Reaal or SNS Bank, respectively, expropriated in the name of Stichting Settlement Onderhandse Schulden SNS Reaal:
the 2000-2020 Van Doorn loan (7.13%); € 13,300,000 for
the 2000-2020 Van Doorn loan (7.10%); € 7,100,000
for the 1997-2014 Foundation loan; € 14,400,000 for
the 1999-2019 Poseidon loan; € 310,000 for
the Ohra Foundation 1999-2024 loan; € 9,000,000.

Costs for legal aid and experts

The State must bear the costs of legal aid and the costs of the experts hired by the parties to the parties who have formed themselves in the proceedings, up to a maximum amount of € 1,000,000, VAT included on each side.

The State will also have to bear the expenses of the experts appointed by the Chamber of Companies, for a total of € 3,593,427.19, VAT included.

Dear all,

I have just received the verdict from the Enterprise Chamber regarding the valuation of your expropriated SNS-bonds.

The verdict is in general in line with the opinion from the experts nominated by the Enterprise Chamber. This implies an expected compensation of 75% of the nominal value of the bonds and with legal interest, this would sum up to approximately 85-90% of the nominal value. Given the original offer from the State (zero), this can be considered as a huge succes.

However, an apeal (cassation) agains this verdict is still possible, so we have to wait another three months (maximum) in order to get certainty, wether you will actually receive this amount.

If necessary, I wil come back toy u this weekend with a lengthier analysis of the verdict.

Sincerely,

Si c’est sujet à appel ( je n’ai pas tout lu ), c’est sûr que le gouvernement batave ne va pas accepter de payer et ce sera reparti pour encore quelques années.

OBLIBLE

Auriez vous ca en français ? J’en ai besoin pour analyse - par un proche qui ne parle ni hollandais ni italien !
Thanks d’avance !